Unnecessary Advice
Today, a prospective student named Rodney sat in on two classes: 9:15 Antitrust and 10:30 Secured Transactions.
Two problems with this.
1) Antitrust has six people.
2) Secured is apparently filled with disgruntled PC students.
Before class, a guy to my right turned around and this conversation ensued:
Guy 1: Are you a prospective student?
Rodney: Yea, I should know where I'm going by the Spring.
Guy 1: Don't come here. I'm being totally, 100% serious. This place is horrible.
Me: It's not that bad. I personally love it here.
Guy 2: Don't come here unless you know you want to do Litigation. Otherwise run.
Rodney: Do you want to do litigation?
Guy 2: No.
Me: No.
Guy 1 & 2:[Looking at me] You can't even talk. You haven't been in PC. [Looking at Rodney] Coming here will be one of the biggest mistakes of your life.
In other words, some people are assholes. I can't understand the mindset; I can't understand their point of view. PC sucks, sure. I get it. As Wikipedia tells me:
"Baylor Law students are required to stand when speaking and to pass the
notorious Practice Court program (where an average night's worth of reading will be 300+ pages in addition to various advocacy exercises)."
No one says it's not tough but it's only 18 weeks . . . about 1/3 of your entire year . . . two ninths of your law school career . . . 0.49% of your entire life if you live till the age of 70 . . . .
If you want to chop off your nose to spite your face, fail the Bar. Until then, take Practice Court for what it is: a short, hard stretch of life that won't make you any worse off in the end.
posted by Jon Swanburg @ 4:01 PM
57 comments
57 Comments:
No. Fucking. Clue.
so he got two different perspectives. you like your experience and many others don't. You have to remember most PC students were around for promgate and are now trying to get jobs with the worst employment at graduation of any law school in the top tier. that is to say, their are reasons to regret coming to baylor. i agree with your PC perspective though...its sucks but its only 2 quarters of your life.
Anyone that traumatized by PC is going to hate being a lawyer, and is going to have a hard time being a very successful lawyer, either working for a firm or hanging a shingle. PC is no harder than actual work, and has the benefit of having no real consequence to screwing up. It's understandable if people bitch while actually in PC -- if they're still that disgruntled afterwards, they're in for a rude awakening when they go into practice.
swanburg writing about PC
=
swanburg shoving his head up his ass.
7:12....are you speaking from experience? because i don't know any lawyers that sleep 3 hours a night year round.
Ok, enough with the three hour night BS...I NEVER once had to stay up that late for PC. This was not the Spanish Inquisition for crying out loud...yeah, it was hard; build a bridge and get over it.
I realize I don't know what goes on inside the walls of PC. I know that Powell and everyone else are scary. I know there are tons of cases to be read, printed and recited.
I've seen the boxes.
The only head up the ass statement I made concerning PC was that it "won't make you worse off in the end." I've seen people walk across the stage at graduation very much alive and well. They look happy, they look relieved and they look like they've accomplished something. The rest of my statements are facts.
While I won't argue the impossibility of living off three hours of sleep for any substantial length of time, 5:40 made some very good points. It is good that the student saw two sides of Baylor, and the current PC students did grow to know a much different school than I have.
But do we really have the worst employment rate of any top-tier school?
I have never read or responded to a blog in my life, but I felt compelled to respond.
First off, you didn't say "it's not that bad," you said something stupid like i don't even want to be a lawyer and it's great here. And no one said it would be the biggest mistake of his life to come to Baylor.
I gave an honest assessment of Baylor's qualities and in the end I told the guy to come to Baylor because he DID say he wanted to litigate and we said Baylor was great for litigation.
Right, you do live thru PC, but since you have no personal knowledge about it (which you will learn in evidence) why don't you not talk it unless you like being the guy on the espn commercial that talks out of his ass.
And since you're training to be a professional watch out who you call assholes. Grow up and find a way to criticize other's opinions without taking personal shots at them. You do consider yourself a grown up don't you?
Signed, one of the assholes that sits right next to you.
First of all PC is not as hard as it is made out to be. And yes I do speak from experience. As for 10:23 I could see where your frustration comes from. Judging from your warnings about criticizing others followed by insults about Swanburg's maturity. Who the hell are you to question what he puts in his own blog. Many (including myself) find his opinions and outlooks on law school hilarious whether we always agree with him or not. As far as professional standards are concerned, fuck you. Get a sense of humor or at least admit that the reason you struggle in PC reflects on you and not Baylor Law students in general.
wow swanburg........class should really be fun for you from now on.
miss me yet???
poor me, struggling thru law school. once again, another guy from the espn commercial...seems to be a lot around here so I'm done here.
as far as "fuck me", that's mature big bad anonymous, you're so tough, can't even get your opinion across without the f word. you probably got bullied as a child and feel really tough talking crap behind a computer screen.
pretty intimidating
I would have said the same thing as Swanburg, but I guess that's just me shoving my head up my ass again.
"I don't even want to be a lawyer"?!?!??! First "So the Bear Says" and now this guy? What is it with these bloggin' bitches who go to Baylor but never intend to practice? Had an extra $80K laying around, or wasting somebody else's money? Couldn't figure out anything better to do with the three years besides come to Waco, Texas, and get repeatedly ass-raped? Bum-fucking befuddles me.
And to the other jerkwad: "Don't come here. It sucks unless you want to litigate." Well why the hell are YOU there then??? Didn't you read the frickin' brochure?? HONEST TO GOD....
Well we both heard different conversations, I guess that happens. Arguing whether or not he wanted to do litigation is a fruitless venture, as is arguing whether or not I need Texas Rules of Evidence to say PC is hard and PC sucks on a blog. The grass is green, the sky is blue, and PC is the toughest part of law school at Baylor. Done.
As to whether I consider my self a grown-up, the answer is no. I sophomorically call people assholes all the time. Britt sings like an asshole, Thomas, in his red Crocs, looks like an asshole, I write like an asshole. It happens.
And yes, I miss you everyday Haley but why are you awake, leaving comments at 7:17?
If people don't like PC, why is it that Powell is picked as commencement speaker every time? That sends a message every time-- don't change PC. PC is great.
I think that if the majority of students hated PC so much, they wouldn't then turn around and put the PC profs up on stage every single time we have a ceremony.
I went through PC and I fully agree with Swanburg's post.
Yes, PC is rough, but most folks actually appreciate it when its over. The students telling others not to come to Baylor because PC is so horrible are acting childish, in my opinion.
To respond to some of the anaymous posters
1. it is more like $150K for 3 years.
2. Some of us come here, for things unlike both Swamburg and those who want to be litigators- some of us see Baylor as a "meal ticket." This may be seen by some as crass, and a denigration of the practice of law. In no way does this mean that those of us here who see a Law Degree as a "meal ticket" will be less professional than those who have a burning passion to litigate/ be saviors of mankind/ etc. Rather, it means that we see the law as a means to an end, rather than an end in and of itself. There are people here, like me, who are paying for everything on loans. We are "banking" (bad pun not intended) on the estimated $4.4 million that a person with a professional degree will earn above and beyond someone with a bachelor's degree during their lifetime. In my case, law is a way for me to get the capital to eventually go into business as a real-estate investor, so that I can eventually live on rental income. Maybe this is "against the principles" of going to law school, but I really don't care. I plan on doing public service when I get out, in order to better the community, but eventually, yes, I expect to see some financial return on my investment here. Those who castigate Swamburg should realize that a JD may open other paths to wealth than practicing law (at least hopefully, for me). If I could have gotten a good paying job out of college I, like many others, would probably not even be here.
I believe I speak for all of those who undertake the study of law for pragmatic reasons.
actually, if rodney wants to do litigation, maybe he should consider south texas, which beat baylor in the rankings FOR LITIGATION. (remember that depressing email from the dean's office?) not only that, but they are about half the price.
and swanburg, to answer your question about baylor's ranking for jobs on graduation, see baylor (#85) - 67.4% at graduation
http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/2/desc/EmployGrad
i dont know where that puts baylor as far as ranking in its tier group, but its definitely not one of the statistics that the law school puts on the website.
as for PC, yeah its a pain in the ass, but not a reason i would recommend someone like rodney not come to baylor. rather, its the fact that they keep jacking up the tuition while the ratings keep falling. for people whose parents are paying for law school that may not be a big deal. but if you are like me, and you are staring down 6 digits in student loan debt, with no job, and gradutation in 2 months, its a bit disconcerting. but hey, thats my fault for not going to south texas i guess.
Why does Powell keep getting voted commencement speaker? It's a little thing called Battered Wife Syndrome coupled with good old fashioned pleasing-your-father issues. The PC students think that maybe on that one day he'll finally heap on them the praise, show the funny side of himself, and let them bask in his folksy warmth, that he never lets them do during class. It's fruitless, but they don't stop thinking that he's a "Great Man."
But eric, if you had gone to South Texas you would have to tell people that you went to South Texas.
For what it is worth, Rodney also came to my Criminal Practice class at 1 pm and seemed to enjoy it-- he even raised his hand and participated in the discussion. That's pretty gutsy. I don't know if he liked Baylor, but I sure liked him.
just noticed that my link got cutoff. here is the full.
http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/2/desc/EmployGrad
that info is purportedly from us news & world reports data. i tried to get the actual stats from us news, but you have to pay for them. and ive got enough debt.
frustrating. ok, to see the link, after the /2 it should be /desc/employgrad
hey anonymous at 9:27, that may be so, but if i would rather be an employed grad of south texas with $75,000 in debt than an unemployed grad from baylor with $150,000 in debt.
Look, litigate or not, Baylor is the school that's supposed to be all about teaching you to PRACTICE law. If you never intend to do that, even briefly, then why the hell put yourself through Baylor? Aren't there any number of other schools to go to if you just want to ruminate on legal abstractions for 3 years or get a JD just for shits and grins? I just don't get it. Why?
And I guess tuition is really through the roof. I haven't been out that long and it cost me about $60K, all borrowed. If it's over $100K now...hell, that's even more insane.
Congrats Swanburg, you seem to have inadvertantly created the perfect storm. George Clooney ain't got nothin' on you (except, like, a frillion million dollar and title of "People's Sexiest Man of the Year." But that's only because they haven't met you yet.)
First of all, I'm going to full support the right ot anyone to say (within reason) anything they want on their blog. We all write our personal opinions and experiences, and some people aren't going to agree with them. There's enough libertarian in me to celebrate a wide open marketplace of ideas. And no one's making you read anyone's blog. I read this one because it makes me laugh (sometimes at inappropriate times), even when I don't agree with it.
Now, as a current PC III student, who's also in Secured (and who sits right in front of Swanburg, for what that's worth). Now, I want to be a litigator more than anything in the blessed world, so in spite of the fact that I occasionally want to kill myself, I'm...well, I'm not thankful for PC right NOW, but I will be when it's over. If we seem disgruntled, it's because we're tired and running around like crazy and come straight from PC III straight before Secured, and that's just a bad time to catch us.
PC is hard, but to an extent it's what you make it. (I say to an extent...there are some parts that are out of your control.) It is rough, and honestly I can't imagine going through it if I DIDN'T want to litigate. And there are some days where I'm not sure if we're all actually in thte same class, because we all seem to have very different experiences.
As far as whether that student was scared away... I worked at the bookstore the summer before I started and every single law student I talked to told me to go somewhere else, and clearly that didn't work on me.
And as a final note, I don't understand all the personal animosity that goes out to bloggers. If you don't like us or agree with us, don't read us! Is personal flaming really so necessary?
hahahahaha this is so awesome
-Bradley Thomas
Regarding the employment numbers, they actually look pretty good to me. 67% employed at graduation and 97+% employed w/in 9 months. Keep in mind that some May graduates spend a couple of months studying for the bar and then celebrating prior to working. Baylor's #'s look solid to me.
I'd like to correct a few things that have been incorrectly stated or at least misleading.
1) While I did tell Rodney not to come here, it was based on my overall experience at Baylor. While Practice Court may be a very small factor on which my opinion is based, my opinion on this school is based on several other factors, including living in a city like Waco for 3 years, limited employment opportunities during school, and having to worry about people writing about me in their online public diaries. There are obviously many other things on which my opinion is based, but I have no idea who reads this blog, and I'm not trying to get in trouble or criticized for expressing opinions that do not conform with the majority of the students/faculty at Baylor.
2) Guy 2 and myself never really said anything about Practice Court, or the difficulties that go along with it. We both realize that the information you learn in PC will be useful during practice. In fact, it was Mr. Swanburg who made the comment to Rodney, Guy 2, and myself that "Practice Court isn't that bad." While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, only someone who has gone through the program should be allowed to make such a conclusory statement on it like they have personal knowledge on the matter. It wouldn't make any sense for me to go tell a med school student that medical school isn't that bad.
3) We did tell Rodney that if he is interested in doing litigation, Baylor is a great school as far as producing brilliant litigators. Guy 2 did not tell him to "run" if he wasn't planning on doing litigation.
4) As for Professor Powell being asked to speak at commencement, there is a reason for that and it has nothing to do with "Battered Wife Syndrome coupled with good old fashioned pleasing-your-father issues." Professor Powell, while strict as hell (and sometimes downright unfair), is the best professor at this school. His ability to teach confusing material to a classroom full of students so that they understand it, while also making it interesting, is unparalleled by any other professor.
And finally, all this bullshit about my advice being based on the fact that Guy 2 and I can't deal with PC is the most ludicrous shit I've read. My three favorite professors through law school have probably been the three most difficult (Powell, Counselor, and Trail), because they were the best teachers.
~Pradeep
Loan repayment begins 6 months after graduation.
It is safe to say that close to 100% of graduates with loans will be employed in some capacity by that time. But employed in what capacity? Who knows...
The numbers are what they are. Behind UT, Tech, and Texas Southern and just barely ahead of U of H.
Loan repayment begins immediately for those with loans from other degrees...that is gonna hurt a bit if I don't have job by August.
anonymous at 10:48,
yes im sure we can all get jobs at the burger-doodle w/in 6 months of graduation. that makes me feel much better, thanks.
to anonymous at 9:48, yes it is insane. there have been two tuition hikes since ive been here. i dont recall the exact numbers, but each one was in the 12.5% range.
the current tuition rate is $772/hour. thats $97,272 for the minimum 126 hours required to graduate. but when you add the other fees (general student fee of $457, etc.) it works out to $11,471.50 for a 14 hour quarter. 126 hours in 9 quarters at 14 hours a quarter comes to $103,243.50. (btw, all these numbers are from the law schools website).
Powell got asked to speak at commencement for the same reason that I'm sure Underwood, and (pre-revolving-door PC days) Muldrow, and Matt Dawson, and Frank Wilson did. Because they're excellent lawyers and good teachers, and even though you hate the shit out of them during PC (to one degree or another, depending on how bad you got beat up and how inflated your self-opinion was), when it's over with you feel you've accomplished something, really, and maybe for the first time in your life. And you appreciate them for showing you you could get pushed a long way and still handle it, and feel like you really GOT something from them, more than any other professor you had.
Sure PC is an uholy bitch, but you know that from day one at BLS, and anyone who lets that sour them on their whole 3 year experience is just a damn whiner.
Speaking as someone whose class was full of whiners and DID NOT invite our PC prof to commencement, anyone who feels that twisted about their PC prof at the end of it all needs to be demanding a freakin' refund.
I'll just say as a grad who didn't find a job until 11 months after graduation, the numbers are misleading at best. I am aware of multiple people in my class who were unemployed for a long time after graduation and got no assistance from career services. I know I didn't. I sought out individual professors with whom I had a relationship for job help. They helped, but that's not their job - that's career services job.
And I am also aware of many graduates, such as myself, who have never contacted the school or career services since we landed a job. How is it then that the school claims to have 100% worth of data on graduates and their employment. Hence, my comment that the numbers are misleading at best.
But I've learned as I've been out of school longer that that's just the way Baylor approaches career services. It doesn't help to harp on it. Just work your ass off and know that you'll do your job search yourself from the beginning and you'll be better off. It may take some time, but it all works out.
As to the rest of the sniping going on - PC is what it is. It's an extremely hard and trying program for a short period of time. It sucks, but you really learn the material. Some people hate it and some people get over it. That's just the nature of it. So there's no point in debating it.
look at the U.S. news and world report numbers. Baylor has the worst employment at grad numbers out of the top 100. more texas weslyan (tier 4) students have jobs at graduation than baylor. I graduated without a job and am still looking, but at the same time some of my classmates had no problem getting a job.
I graduated from Baylor a few years ago and within a couple months after graduation everyone that I knew of that didn't already have a job had lined up a job they were happy taking.
I suppose some students will not have a job handed to them on a silver platter, but every BLS grad who is not employed at graduation should be able to line up a job with a bit of leg work. Baylor's reputation in Texas is second only to UT. And BLS grads have the added benefit of having the best chance to pass the bar and probably know more about practicing actual law than any other Texas law school graduate.
I will say that it was my experience that unless you were a top 10%er and going to Baker Botts or at least one of the big Dallas/Houston firms, career services was worthless. I knew of 2 or 3 classmates who had the grades but were personality trainwrecks and couldn't seem to get hired. Somehow the powers that be at the law school got them into big firms so BLS wouldn't suffer the indignity of having jobless top grads. Everybody else got a photocopied address list of DA's offices.
Good job, Swanny. And you wonder why I write about the statutory construction of each sports league's rulebook.
And to just add two cents. I plan on litigating and I'm tepidly looking forward to PC in the fall. But you can't make a blanket statement that those of us whoaren't in PC have no knowledge of what goes on there. We go to school here. We know lots of people who have gone through or are going through PC. While we don't know everything there is to know about PC, its not like we don't have a pretty good idea at this point. People talk.
photocopied address lists!
classic Career Disservices
i hear all these claims that "baylor grads are more prepared to practice law" and "employers recognize and respect baylor" etc. etc... if that's the case, WHY DONT WE HAVE JOBS! i dont need a job handed to me on a silver platter. i dont expect CSO to hunt down jobs for me. i know ill have to do that on my own. but if baylor is so well respected (2nd only to UT i think someone opined) then why are people out there for 11 months looking for jobs!
Good grief. Any law grad in the state should be able to get a job after 11 months. If you have been a grad for 11 months and you don't have a job, there is no one to blame except the guy staring back at you in the mirror.
Find out where you want to practice, make lists of all of the firms you are interested in and and that you qualify to work at, and start sending resumes and cover letters. Call the hiring partners and the junior partners. Call all of the BLS grads in the area. Get off of your ass and get a job!! And don't whine when you are talking to potential employers. That is a big turnoff.
I suspect that these umemployed folks are a small (yet vocal) minority.
Vocal, maybe.
Small, not exactly - 33% at graduation according to the reports.
That is the unfortunate reality.
I am offended by the use of the word "asshole" in regards to my singing. My rendition of "In Da Club" is a metaphor for the experiences I've been through in my life. You are so insensitive, Swanburg.
Some background on the "numbers" used by U.S. New.
First let me say that this is a huge source of frustration for CSO folks everywhere. An uproar two years ago led to U.S. News reducing the significance of "at graduation" to 4% because the schools pointed out that state and federal govermental entities and state prosecutors do not hire until bar results are in. If you want to work for the State or prosecute, you will more than likely be an "after graduation" hire.
"do we really have the worst employment rate of the top tiered schools?" Did anyone see the Texas Lawyer article where the dean of the U.T. law school attributed its drop in rankings to a "fluke" in the reporting of employment figures? The UT CSO had reported the graduates studying for the February bar exam as "unemployed; studying for the bar fulltime" instead of "not seeking." Actually, the UT CSO reported correctly. If you are unemployed and studying for the bar full time, you are just that...and there is a place to check on the NALP exit interview form that every law school uses that asks:
Employed?
Unemployed-Seeking employment?
Unemployed--Studing for the bar full time?
Unemployed--Not seeking?
The "unemployed/studying for the bar" was added a couple of years ago with the express instructions that the grad would still be considered "unemployed." (This has been dropped for 2007 and will go back to employed/seeking/not seeking.)
"At graduation": This is supposed to be the date you graduate. NALP sent out a memo that schools should be using the actual graduation date. Baylor graduates 4 classes a year. Some schools have students graduate in December, but only have one graduation ceremony in May. So they use the May date as "graduation," giving their grads 5 more months and the Feb. bar results to determine "at graduation." Is it honest? No. Is there any way to stop it? Not that I can think of because NALP (National Asso. for Legal Recruitment Professionals) has all the schools reporting on an "honor" system. The numbers reported are never verified by any outside judge.
One 4th tier school regularly reports "100% employed at graduation." Why? Because most of its students are parttime and have jobs while they are in law school. Thus, they are "employed" at graduation, but it isn't a legal job. U.S. News doesn't report what type of job. Is if full time legal? Bartending? (that would be full or parttime "non-professional")
In 2005 (which is what the most current U.S. News used for employment stats), 87% were full time legal, 4% full time professional or JD preferred; 2.5% were LLM students (which U.S. News reports as "employed". 1.5% were parttime professional (no bartending here). 2% unemployed/not seeking; 2.6% were unemployed/seeking. 68% of our students went into private practice vs. 48% nationwide.
More on the "honors" system. One school is reporting in the current U.S. News a median starting salary in private practice of over $130,000!! (This is not an Ivy League school reporting NYC salaries) These are numbers from the 2005 employment stats, before the huge firms bumped their salaries to $140,000. Well, look at the percentage reporting salary. This school is reporting less than 25% of its graduates salaries. Which salaries do you think they chose to report?
What percentage of grads are reporting? Baylor reports almost 100% each year. To Anonymous 12:46 who hasn't contacted the CSO and yet we report you are employed? You bet we reported you. You are listed on the State Bar website with the name of your firm. If not that, you are listed on your firm's website. If not that, one of you law school friends has let me know where you are working. Or one of the profs has your info. Google and Facebook are also helpful. (Even old people like myself know how to use these tools.)
Eric S.: You haven't exactly beaten down my door for assistance, have you?! I can't do much if you don't come into the office! And employers do look at rankings. (Did I mention that 40% of the U.S. New rankings are based on less than 2,000 ballots (and even fewer responses) from all the practicing attorneys in the U.S....less than .ooo6%). I am not a fan of these arbitary rankings, but you are better off with Baylor as a top rank.
All this said, job hunting is a pain in the behind. About 30% of Baylor grads get their first jobs through Fall OCI (the national average is less than 25%). (This is also not a statistic reported by U.S. News, but in checking with sister schools like SMU and Tulane, they also place about 30% through OCI). So that means the majority of students, whether at Baylor or not find their first job through job postings, referrals from profs, networking. It's not an easy venture. It's time consuming and hard on the ego.
If you haven't logged into BEARister, please do. Your username is your baylor email (the full thing with @baylor.edu) and your default password is baylorlaw. You can change that when you log in. You can look at our posting. You can also look under "resumes and documents" and go do "document library." Various links to job sites. Among them the Intercollegiate Job Bank to check postings in all 50 states.
If you haven't come by the CSO, email me and come by. I can't make a job magically appear, but I may have suggestions or resources you haven't yet tapped.
Sorry to go on and on. If you have questions about what is reported and what it means, please email me at kat_logue@baylor.edu.
Katherine Logue
Baylor CSO
Katherine Logue,
By no means did I mean to insult you or the Baylor CSO office. I was simply voicing my frustration and fear at graduating in 2 months with so much debt and no job as of yet. I apologize if you felt my citing of US News and World Report statistics cast your office in a bad light.
And yes, you are correct, I have not visited your office; rather I have been beating the bushes, so to speak, on my own. I’ve heard that’s the most effective method for job-hunting. Whether my endeavors will yield employment, we shall see.
well, i see both sides of this... but truth be told, the prospective student had a right to hear ALL opinions. i graduated from BLS a couple years ago. i am not a litigator, and didn't realize i didn't want to be til about half way through law school. i knew baylor was hard going into it, but i wish someone had stopped me and said "do you really want to be a litigator??" i needed that, and now, i wish i had had that. i did fine in PC, actually, my best grades in law school. i slept 6 hours a night, never got thrown out, never had a memo, and still had a social life. all that to say, i learned a good deal, but it isn't AT ALL beneficial to my area of law now. so, the assholes that spoke up aren't entirely "assholes"... i would have said the same thing had i had the nerve back then. i don't hate BLS as much as i did when i graduated, but i would still tell someone to really think about what they want to do and what they want to invest in law school. i started work immediately after taking the bar... started my loan payments 4 months later- and let me tell you this, having a job that pays 55,000 does not help much for 149,000 worth of school loans. i could have started paying 2 years after i started work, and it still wouldn't have been "no big deal." i have friends that love baylor law school, and that's great! i didn't love it. i won't give money back (they didn't help me in any way)... and i won't recommend that my little brother's wife's best friend's cousin go there.... to each his own...
Retirement is nice. Here, let me stir something up for you, Swanburg. So, this new Diet Coke Plus tastes like Crystal Pepsi and rancid milk, but better. If you don't agree with me, you're just bitter or ignorant. Coke Zero was the greatest drink I ever had while I was at Baylor Law School, and these new kids with their Diet Coke Plus don't have a clue.
you know, chris, you shouldn't try to get your vitamins in diet coke...
I was 7:12pm yesterday. To answer 8:41pm -- yeah, I speak from experience. But my PC experience was 13 years ago, was with Muldrow and Powell, and was before it got so cushy. And real life is tougher than PC. Oh, to be a law student again...
prospective students should be told about the reading load and amount of time pc takes up, if i would have been told that i probably would have gone somewhere else, but still there is no need to just outright tell people not to come here.
Eric S: No insult taken. Just an opportunity to jump into the conversation. Hey, I did this law school thing. I did P.C. It took 3 years before I could walk into the law school without the hair standing up on the back of my neck...afraid Muldrow was going to jump out from around a blind corner. I understand the frustration. I had debt, undergrad and law school, but nothing like the proportions of today. Beating the bushes is the time honored way of finding a job...but I'd still like to help tailor that bush beating by sitting down with you. (If you'd just been "anonymous 12:49, I wouldn't have used your name...I didn't mean to single you out...just that you raised good points that needed answering...and you used your name!)
(Is anyone impressed that I'm blogging at 3 a.m.? The boring life of a CSO lady.)
I would have told the kid the same thing. The exact same and I will continue to tell people that when they ask me about Baylor Law.
I'm a Baylor law graduate and a litigator.
There are times when the actual practice of law is more time intensive than PC. About once a month I have to pull an "all-nighter." There are hundred of pages of documents or cases to read in a matter of hours. Then you have to write a brief over the topic.
Right now, I have about 1500 pages to read by the end of the week. Then, I have to synthesize those pages with about 100,000 pages of discovery and draft an amended consolidated complaint by the end of the month. Good times, huh?
In PC, it's only your money that is at stake. In real life litigation, it's your job and your client's money at stake.
I did not enjoy PC when I was going through it. But I learned a lot. Regrettably, I have not gone to trial yet. I guess that's what happens when you litigate multi-billion dollar securities class actions.
PC is worth it, and it is an indicator of how life as a lawyer can be. Not all your days as a lawyer will be like a day in PC. But some of them definitely will be.
I like the argument that since a day or two every so often will suck like PC, 9 months of it really prepare you. We really should have a logic class at BLS.
"Nine months"? Looks like a math class wouldn't hurt, neither.
8:06 If PC takes so long how come you've got time to read swannie's blog, watch ESPN, and engage in superimpositive shit talking across the net.
Oh, and also if Plato had utilized the word "fuck" effectively. The Republic might have a been a bit more concise. Why don't you go pull a copy during all your spare time and figure out how?
By the way, this is Wooderson speaking. Ask around, I have no problem at all making these arguments in person.
Mwah.
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